When Partner's Can't Work

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May 02

When Partner's Can't Work

Hi everyone, sorry i've been out of touch again...i am in the final throes of revising my book, which really does exist and really will come out at the end of the year, please lord.

meanwhile i wanted to get back into the thread introduced by Redsonya about what happens when a spouse loses their job, or has to take a lesser job or can't work or gets laid off, etc.

i'm in a similar situation, although the causes are different than what other folks brought up--like immigration. my husband bartends and has finished a novel, which he still hopes to sell--and he is also hoping to get into grad school for the fall. but the point is, he hates bartending and yet because he's done only that for so long, he's having a hard time now segueing into more meaningful, more lucrative work. and yes, he has been quite depressed about being "stuck." he feels his choice to bartend while he wrote--which seemed like a good tradeoff once upon a time--may have painted him into a corner. i can't say too much more; i think this is about as comfortable as he'd feel if he read this. but there's more, as you can imagine.

it's very hard for men and women to get used to the new world financial order, which is to say: there is no financial order. anna, one of the WIR you never hear from cuz she's "wicked busy," as she would say, ;-)--she has a stay at home husband. he doesn't work right now. she brings home the bacon. period. it's a totally 1950s arrangement--in 21st century terms. is it odd? not when you consider that that's how large chunks of the world have done things for centuries.

still, i think of my husband's sense of despair--and my own confusion about how i'm "supposed to feel" about our situation--and i realize i don't know what the answer is. i believe my husband is on the right path now, trying to get into school to make a career shift. i also believe he will publish his novel. i tell him i have faith in him. and meanwhile, remind myself that while life would be easier if he was a bigger earner, SO WHAT? so i also try to practice what Kala described (sorry for such a long quote, but i like the smooch part ;-):

"It is hard not to let money or lack of it define us in this society. But that's exactly where we need to be most vigilant--if it takes telling yourself and one another that you are good, worthy people trying your best like everybody else, then repeat that a hundred times a day. You cannot internalize other peoples' judgements, or dominant cultural messages that judge your worth by your possessions, jobs, money, etc. etc. If that requires turning off the television, not watching commercials, so be it! (I mute them or use that time to wash a plate or two, or do little increments of cleaning, or smooch:-) because I hate hate hate how loud and ugly some commercials are in telling me what I need to be doing with my life and my money!)"

11:38 PM | Blog it | Love and money

Comments (25)

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	Chris wrote: My husband and I have been married for almost 27 years and we did well with our finances all those years, even though I left my job to have our baby and stayed home for a good number of years. My mother was living with us and when she became elderly, I was the sole caregiver, which meant I could not go back to work. Still, we made it financially. Now that we are in our late 50s, we sold our home and now live in a condo, our son is on his own and doing very well, we have another problem. I was working for an insurance company and got layed off and have found it very difficult to find another job. I've done everything. Now the expenses are creeping up and our savings is going down. My husband works and makes okay money. He even works overtime. I am afraid that we might not be able to stay in our condo and it is making me depressed. Does anyone have this problem and can you give some advice? May 20
	Kala wrote: I totally agree that the way the economy is set up, married people do get certain kinds of benefits and perks that single or those who are not allowed to marry legally cannot access. And that's in addition to the whole cultural baggage about marriage versus the single female. Having admitted that, I think trying to figure who has it worse in a crisis situation is not really very fruitful. Struggling financially puts a strain on you and your relationships whether you are single or married. Yes, sometimes, marriage provides a financial cushion, at others it adds a huge burden. And I'll admit, for all of my positive thinking and friendship w/ my husband, there are times when I wonder what I would do if I were in the same crisis on my own. Sometimes I think I'd be more afraid without the companionship, and sometimes I think I'd be bolder and do something radically different, and sometimes i think I'd be more honest and ask for family help more easily if I were on my own. Who knows what I would really have done. Kala May 12
	Jill wrote: Sarah, definitely all settled CC are considered income. And did you buy a new hybrid? Hate to point out the inequity in that statement but you are settling CC debt while buying a new car. Why not pay the CC in full and buy a used car? That is my issue with CC settlements. I do agree 100% that a lot of people did it out of stupidity, not trying to beat the system, but they end up with the better deal because of it? May 10
	Sarah wrote: Lynda, Thank you for the heads up. I will check into that...we just recently bought a new vehicle, and I was told that I should get a tax break on that, so hopefully it will even out! Thank you! May 9
	Lynda's Spacewrote: Sarah, Be prepared for a tax bill. When you settle a debt for less money, the IRS sees the difference between what you owed and what you paid as "income." Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it happened to a family member recent6ly. May 9
	Lynne wrote: C - I agree that it is comforting to have a partner's income to rely on, but the truth of the matter is I know of very few relationships where both working partners earn anything close to equal salaries, so if anything happened to the major wage earner, they are just about as SOL as any single person (maybe a bit more since they have more than single expenses). Or, in the case of an illness, often the other wage earner has to take time off and sometimes loses their job taking care of the ill partner. My "safety net" is really no different than it would be if I were single - I have an EF, I'd take a solid month or two of pounding pavement, then I'd temp (I'm lucky that in my profession I can temp for the same salary as my current job, or more depending on OT). In some ways, being single would be easier because i wouldn't be restricted in where I could take a job - obviously while my DH works I can only look in my current metro area. May 8
	Sarah wrote: I wanted to address something that Jill said in the posting. I have recently started making payments on a credit card(and a phone bill)that I had when I was 18, ten years ago. I was young, and stupid, and with a man that didn't have any sense, and I ran up a thousand dollars on this card in no time. Now, I cannot even remember what I put on that card...not one darn thing. Of course, the man promised to help me pay it, but I left him, and as I am sure you know, that promise was thrown out the window. So, 5 states and many many moves later, the collections agency finally tracks me down, which is fine by me because I would LOVE to get it payed off and off of my credit report. Anyways, that $1000 dollars that I put on the credit card is now $2500, and they settled with me for $1800, as long as I make my monthly payments. Now, that is a good deal, I think it is like 30% that they took off, but I am still getting hit with $800 in interest. I am not complaining, because that is a good interest rate for ten years, but I do feel as though I am paying my part on that money. No, I do not feel as though I should have spent that money on that card, because at the time I was not able to pay it back. But I am paying it back now, and I am paying interest, even though I got a discount, it still doubled. I guess my point is, not everyone should be lumped into the catagory that they are getting stuff at a discount because they could not afford it. Some people are just stupid(me me me) and do stupid things(me me me) and it takes them years to pay back something, but they are still paying the interest! And that is my two pennies!! May 8
	C wrote: what if single persons cannot work for whateve reason? roles aside of what the marrieds/cohabitants do, at least there's an intrinsic safety net. 1 income on 2 persons is still 50%, not 0%. even if there are dependent child(ren), then the ratio still doesn't go to zero while there remains an earner. so, being married, or in some way financially attached, is a sort of insurance, a security that life can go on, albeit not in same comfort. gosh, makes marriage sound like a career move, but it's certainly a way to hedge risk by becoming each other's safety net. When single people unexpectedly have their income severed, it's gonna sting. KEEP THAT EF FUNDED, smartly and conservatively. we're all just 1 day away from being deemed expendable. May 5
	Lynne wrote: I want to piggy-back on that last comment. Depirvation is something done TO you, you have no choice. Deciding to be debt-free rather than have the new car or Coach purse is a CHOICE. Or working a job that pays lots of money means you never see your family members awake (I have a friend going through this right now). If you think of the choice and the trade-off when you get the twinge, it makes it easier to go away (it's the same thing for dieting. You can choose to eat the chocolate cake but think of the consequences and make sure if you do eat it you enjoy it fully and won't regret it) May 5
	Lynda's Spacewrote: You can have anything you want in this world, if you're willing to pay the price for it. I could make double what I earn, but I'd never get to take my child to the park and my marriage would suffer. I have been eyeing a sporty new luxury car, but to get it, I'd have to pick up a car note. We don't have a lot of fancy things because we made a choice not to pay the price of acquiring them. Most of us have learned that it's not worth it to have a high credit-card balance in order to get pretty clothes and glittering furnishings. Now, hold your head up and smile. May 5
	Kala wrote: And may I add, when I get frustrated about money and confused about how I'm supposed to feel about my partner not bringing home money, I remind myself that (a) money is just a means to living, not vice versa, and (b) remind myself of everything I love about him--I did not marry him for a paycheck; so he's still the same person; and (c) if I weren't married, I'd still have get my a$# to work, right? May 4
	KM wrote: The comparisons to, and envy of, other people who seem to have it all (nice home, car, clothes, what-have-you) are so hard to get away from. I find that I tend to compare myself to my siblings -- gauging what I have attained (materialistically or otherwise) against where I perceive that they are. The problem with this is that, many times, my perceptions may not be right. Sure someone may look like they are filthy rich, but truthfully they may be dirt poor. Conversely, someone who looks like they can't afford new clothes may in fact be sitting on a huge bank account! Regardless, one thing I have found helps me cope when those twangs of envy and jealousy come around is to try to list in my mind all the things I have that others don't. For example, I try to remember that being healthy and able to work is important, and I have that. Or, maybe I can't afford new furniture, but I have people who love and value me. I also try to reason with myself -- really thinking about if I need the things I want to buy. Most often the answer is No. The hard part is that many times other people in your life try to convince you otherwise (going back to the Fuming About Friends thread below). It seems a constant struggle, but if we can keep reminding ourselves of all the good things we have or are working on, then maybe we will win more often than lose in the comparisons we make to others. May 4
	Kala wrote: To pitch in my $.02 worth regarding how we're supposed to feel : It's certainly harder to maintain perspective when you're going against the grain, whether it is deciding NOT to buy the latest-whatever, or when your (male) partner isn't the primary breadwinner. If envy gets yr claws out, try sympathy! I have great, supportive friends, but sometimes their "sympathy" can burn as much as their HBO subscription. But whether I'm burning from sympathy or from envy, I've come to realise that burning--beyond just that bit I need to kick-myself and push me to get out of a bad situation—can cause a loss of perspective, and ultimately leaves me charred (ok, carried that metaphor to its limit now!) The point I'm trying to make is that I've come to realize that envy is not a "natural' thing just as "happiness" or "contentment" aren't. If happiness is a result of choices and decisions we make, and more importantly, have to make, then we also have to choose not to be envious. I’m not trying to be preachy, but actually proposing a different path that might produce less bile. Let me give you an example: My sibling's the "successful" immigrant by all means, and I went through a period when I felt so bloody awful about myself that I didn't want to visit or talk--because i was burning up with frustration and trauma over my situation that ( I realized later) I was projecting on to him. And oh, I stood in my own way, of course. When I did reach breaking point and open up to him, he helped. and said all the right things, and that he has material success, but he's frustrated about taking the conventional "market-friendly" path in choosing a career. And envied the fact that what I do is who I am, and that I'm trying to make a difference in the world, and that by helping me out he was contributing indirectly to the world, etc. etc. which, of course, made me cry even more, but in a good way:-) Anyway, the point I think I'm trying to make is, by developing my negative feelings, or at least allowing them fester because I didn't want to be honest abt my situation, I also denied myself months and months of good, solid support. So, getting back to how we’re supposed to feel about our situations: Creating alternative narratives about our situations and what we observe in others--new jeans or carefree spending--does make for a good strategy. But I guess I'm trying to caution us against--and I really intend no offense or am not addressing anyone in particular, so apologies in advance if I offend anyone-- going too far? Especially with the negative-narratives-abt-others bit. I try to ask myself, who cares what other people do or pay or not pay? If I don’t want things like credit cards, clothes, spending, credit ratings (ya, i know what it's like to receive a letter from a CC company abt concern abt rating, upped interest rates etc. but still...) are not anyway reflective of who I am as a human being, then how can we think that of others just to make ourselves feel better (except maybe celebrities!)? Instead, why not create "alternative narratives" (okay, some happy lies even, whatever) about ourselves that are positive and affirmative. We're part of an era where the definition of work is different, gender expectations are different and changing much faster than they did for our parents. Maybe we're ahead of the curve in realizing that: (a) working for a company for 50 yrs and dropping dead is not fulfilling to who we are--i'm not denigrating it but just admitting that I personally don't have the stamina to endure that (and the fact that companies don’t want to keep u around for that long is beside the point, of course!); (b) being with a partner who believes in the straight and narrow, is not my cup of tea--i'm glad I am a child of someone like that because it made for a secure childhood, but I like who I'm with--whimsical, global nomad, talented, kind, thoughtful, loving, fun--but with excellent hygiene, I assure you, and not a birken-wearing hippie; (c) pursuing material possessions that literally cost the earth (and will go into a landfill at some point!) when I could enjoy the last few trees left in the world and enrich my life with books, music, friends, relationships, figuring out purpose, etc. etc. are much more worthy pursuits. Sure, I go watch movies, I drink soda, I watch junk television. But I am also becoming more aware that this whole money-crunch-life-misfortune-thang is also making me think deeply about the kind of life I want, the kind of person I want to be, and so on. I guess that’s more like $2 worth! Ciao, Kala May 4
	Elinawrote: If ads told us "Your life is fine the way it is, no need to buy anything else!" the economy would collapse. Anyone who has studied marketing or advertising knows that unless they're selling something we can't live without, like food or medicine, the job of the advertisers is to create an artificial sense of need. Deep down, we know what we need to make us happy: health, friends, family, good jobs, etc. Much of what makes us happy isn't even for sale. So, advertisers convince us that we also need $200 jeans, $60 lotions, etc. etc. etc. to feel happy. I'm don't meen to bash the ad/marketing industry. And there are a lot of products that enhance our quality of life. But it is possible to silence those "you NEED this" voices, as some posters have written, by simply turning off the ad vehicles we can control: TV, fashion mags, etc. May 4
	Jill wrote: I guess what I mean is we're so jealous of what? Nice stuff? Yes, but then how do you reconcile the morality that these people can have such nice stuff and also not pay for it in full? It's horrible to be a little jealous over it, but it's reality. It's even tougher on the conscience, that says in your head, charge up $100k and see what it feels liek. May 4
	Jill wrote: Truth is I do have some jealousy. BUT that is not my PET PEEVE. My pet peeve is people who are able to charge nice things on the CC, then don't have the money to pay. Then they either declare BK or they go into collections and "settle" for less than the debt is worth? Why is this allowed? Why are these people allowed to have such nice stuff at a huge discount because they no longer can afford it? How can they justify that they didn't sign up to pay 22% interest on the purchase? Sorry but if you signed up for the card, I feel it's the person's responsibility to pay for it. Not a $10k debt settled for $6k. What the heck! It's really my pet peeve and pisses me off to no end when I read message boards where people say they PAID OFF their debt by settling it for like 50% of the original amount! I feel gypped. I should charge everything then not pay and then just give them 50 cents or 20 on the dollar, because that's what these people get to do. It's been irking me more and more because people on boards get support cheered on for paying off some portion of debt, but then NOT ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY for the full amount. They also claim it's the CC companies fault, but when someone like me, points out that no one held a gun to their head to charge, they say, I was never explained CC. They say that CC kept increasing their limit. The concept they would have to pay this money back didn't enter their heads till $50k in debt on a $40k salary? Sorry for my rant, it was just reading over everyone's having a bit a jealousy over people's things, and I sit here thinking, I do want stuff too. And I hadn't been jealous before because I was happy to have anything, but now I'm upset/jealous because these people can get whatever they want and not pay for it. It never occurred to me that people can "settle" CC debt for a LOT less money. May 4
	No namewrote: Hi, it's Mia. For some reason my name won't show on this thing (i see a couple of other no names!). <p>Anyway...THE ENVY THING. oh man, it's so hard. but i have to agree with pepper. i mean, camilla is right that it's unfair to judge anyone by their swanky wardrobe and assume they're in gobs of debt. but take the young woman who lives in Manhattan and works at a fashion magazine (hey there! i worked at Glamour for nearly 3 years!)--when you know roughly what your peers are earning, and you see them plunking down the money for the Taste of Heaven jeans or whatever...i think it's a safe coping mechanism to wonder, at least, whether they can afford all that. <p>SO MANY PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THE LIVES THEY HAVE ON DISPLAY. this is the truth. i know this from research, from reporting. and yes, it does comfort me, even as i drool over so-and-so's coach bag. sob. <p>Meanwhile, I'm struck by how many people mention that they avoid watching commercials as a way to stay financially sane. Me too! In fact, i have found that avoiding the big money traps of consumer culture is an excellent way to stay focused on your financial goals. <p>i toss every catalog that hits my mailbox without looking at it (unless i'm in a state of weakness and ennui) <p>i avoid reading most magazines (especially women's mags, i hate to say...since they paid the rent for many years) <p>i don't go to malls, or the NYC equivalent, which is SoHo, Flatiron, parts of the Lower East Side. <p>and increasingly, yes, i spend less and less time around people who live a lifestyle i can't afford to keep pace with. <p>As for envy...well...i don't have much of a solution for that. It truly is a deadly, deadly poisonous state of mind. I appreciated one woman's honesty about how she and her DH are struggling to get themselves going and meanwhile other friends simply chose more lucrative careers--and it can put a knife in your gut. boy, do i hear that. sometimes i'm just glad to hear all these voices of reason, and that comforts me. May 3
	(no name) wrote: I agree completely. One of the hardest things is to resist the "keeping up with the Jones's" syndrome. I am a young single gal living in Manhattan (and I work at a fashion magazine, no less) and everything and everyone all day long is shouting at me "You need to buy the $200 jeans and those $400 shoes and this $60 face cream!" Am I doomed? Everyone around me buys those things, so why can't I? I've struggled with it for a long time and feel like I just got it under control last year. Now, I do the same thing, reminding myself that those girls are probably accruing major debt and it's not financially responsible to buy everything and anything your little heart desires. It'd be nice, sure. But I try to remember that more than I want a new pair of jeans, I want to be debt free. I want to build an emergency fund that offers me some peace of mind in an emergency. I want to start saving for a down payment on a house. I want to teach myself to make smart choices. I don't need to be the girl with the most expensive wardrobe. Or the biggest apartment. Whatever the things are that tempt you, you just have to remind yourself how great it feels to be setting yourself for a better life. Who knows what it's going to throw at you. I'm 24, and I have so much ahead of me, but it's all unknown. With all the "what if's" out there (What if I never get married? What if we get divorced? What if I lose my job? What if our car breaks down? What if someone you love needs help? etc...), you can answer every single one of them with "Yeah. I'm glad I saved that money" instead of spending on frivolous things you probably don't even remember wanting. May 3
	(no name) wrote: I feel better knowing that other people are feeling the way I do. A lot of my friends are buying new homes right now, while my DH and I are scraping together money to buy a used car. Sometimes, I feel so horrible when I feel jealous of my close friends because I know that they work hard for these things. But, I work at a non profit, which I love and DH is starting his own business which has been a dream for a long time. I don't doubt that my friends are as happy as we are with their (more financially rewarding) jobs, and I just have to remind myself that some day we will have a house and a newer car. It's hard not to feel competitive with friends and co workers, but important to do things on your own timeline (she says convincingly...) May 3
	Laura Whittlewrote: "I also find that by focusing on whatever it is you are spending the money on (for me it is major student loan debt relief) helps the twinges of envy. We have friends with a new beautifully furnished house but still paying only the minimums on their student loans, whereas mine will be paid off in 4 years (instead of 20)!" Me too! I find when I make a payment and am that much closer to being paid off I definately feeel some satisfaction with that! Also because of that satisfied feeling I want to pay off more debt! Although I do agree that we can't assume that they are all up to their ears in debt because of the cloths that they wear! May 3

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